Jackie Bavaro

Jackie Bavaro on getting better at product strategy, what exactly is strategy, PM pitfalls to avoid, advancing your career, getting into management, and much more

Source 1322022-06-1611,704 words

Use this source for the original language, context, and comparison across the transcript set. The excerpts below keep the conversation readable before any interpretation.

Source moments

Read the transcript before the interpretation.

These excerpts keep the original conversation visible. Read the quote first; any interpretation should stay attached to what the language actually does.

Opening

Lenny (00:00:05): If you're PM, you've almost surely read and been influenced by Jackie Bavaro. And if you haven't, you're in for a treat. Jackie is behind two of the most important books in the PM cannon, Cracking the PM Interview and Cracking the PM Career. And she's also one of the smartest people I know on the essential skill of product strategy in our chat....

The opener starts with biography before advice. That order makes the guest legible as a person before the listener extracts tactics.

Accept praise cleanly

Lenny (00:00:51): This episode is brought to you by...

Accepts praise without shrinking from it or turning it into a performance.

Accept praise cleanly

Lenny (00:00:51): This episode is brought to you by flat file. Think...

Accepts praise without shrinking from it or turning it into a performance.

Name the work

Jackie Bavaro (00:03:08): That's awesome. Lenny (00:03:2...

Names a concrete strength, artifact, or contribution instead of offering generic praise.

Accept praise cleanly

Lenny (00:48:44): Amazing. Thank you so much for being here, Jackie. Jackie Bavaro (00:48:46): Yeah. Thanks for having me. Great conversation....

Accepts praise without shrinking from it or turning it into a performance.

Ending

Jackie Bavaro (00:48:00): And then, yeah, that last part of learning. "Did you grow from this?" Especially if it's a failure, which is lots of people love to talk about the products that failed or sometimes the interviewer asks them to talk about a product that fails, but I don't want them to leave it at "Yeah. It was a big loss....

The ending hands attention back to the guest's work instead of ending on the host.